Does House Bill 4580 Make Us a Socialist State?

16 Responses to “Does House Bill 4580 Make Us a Socialist State?”

1. benign0 on August 25th, 2008 3:19 pm

   I think calling this country a communist/socialist state in this instance is being too kind.

   Forcing health professionals to stay against their will is at worst a form of modern-day slavery and at best yet another manifestation of our world-renowned crab mentality.

   Rather than celebrate the success of our compatriots (in this celebrating the success that awaits them overseas), we’d rather pull them down by the ankles to suffer in our collective wretchedness at home.

2. Prudence on August 25th, 2008 8:20 pm

   If the people and the government will continue to see health care practitioners as sacrificial lambs, instead of human beings that deserve to have fair and just compensation, then perhaps, it’ll better if the doctors will go on strike. A drastic move, certainly. But there are also limits to enduring unnecessary burdens.

3. cocoy on August 25th, 2008 8:43 pm

   benign0, hehehe.

   @prudence yep yep. i hear where you’re coming from. I come from a family of docs and people often assume that just because you’ve got an M.D. means you make tons of money. Sadly the tons of money come later in the practice— if you’re lucky.

4. A small enough inconvenience « smoke on August 25th, 2008 11:23 pm

   […] small enough inconvenience Posted on 25 August 2008 by rom Over at Filipino Voices, cocoy reacts strongly to reports that “Rep. Ignacio Arroyo of 5th District, Negros […]

5. JC John SESE-Cuneta on August 26th, 2008 10:14 am

   Hi,

   I don’t think summarizing “Socialist/Socialism” as “Communist/Communism” is right. Many of the 1st World Countries in the world are Socialist/Socialism States but they are not Communists or Communism.

   I believe in Socialism on the side of Democracy - Social-Democrat to be exact. I do not believe in pure Capitalism or pure Communism, and I do not believe in Totalitarianism.

   With all due respect, sir, Socialist/Socialism is NOT Communist/Communism. It has more deeper meaning and huge difference than that, but I think it is best to be researched than to explain from someone like me.

   Best Regards.

   —

   PS, on-topic, as much as I do not like the fact that Filipinos serve in other countries after this Country let them live and study in its own land, I do not agree with ‘forcing’ them to serve here.

   In fairness tho, it is clear why some politicians thought of that. Filipinos after they graduate, will go work abroad and serve there. When they die, they go back here as corpses. Is the Philippines their graveyard?

   It is their freewill, so let them decide for themselves. Just one request, do not go back in this country as corpses.

6. cocoy on August 26th, 2008 1:13 pm

   JC John,

   Socialism deals with the collective ownership of goods and services. Communism is the extreme of socialism. it wants a classless, stateless, society with common property as basis.

   Most Filipinos whether they are aware of it or not are social democrats.

   It is their freewill, so let them decide for themselves.

   What’s so bad if Filipinos— any man for example would want to earn a living wage that he thinks he justly deserve? Talent goes where the money is. If a foreign company or organization is paying him 10x more than a local one is— would it be right therefore *not* to accept a job that pays more?

   If you did a service for someone, shouldn’t you be paid proportionally for that work?

7. cvj on August 26th, 2008 4:02 pm

   Many in the Middle Class did express its willingness to lose its rights and freedoms in order to move the country forward. The above is just one of the ways, and as Rom has said, ‘a small enough inconvenience’ (compared to a military draft, for example).

8. cocoy on August 27th, 2008 6:13 am

   @cvj i think, post edsa, our socialist tendency was strong and getting stronger. our nation has increasingly been focused on big government. “let government do this. let government be the answer to all our problems.”

   our constitution is filled with references to social justice. that document in fact, advocates the creation of big government. it has led to excessive cuddling of our people. it has led to the combination of economic and political power in the same hands and that is leading us to tyranny, creeping quietly. it isn’t just the middle class or any class at all, cvj— it is the failure of socialist democracy.

9. The wealth equation and what side of it our loser mentality puts us | Filipino Voices on August 27th, 2008 9:04 am

   […] This, by the way, was part of his response to another one of cvj’s little contributions to humanity’s collective […]

10. cvj on August 27th, 2008 10:34 am

    Cocoy, would you like the Constitution to promote Social Injustice instead? Despite the Constitution’s references to Social Justice, the government has not been able to deliver in this area because of the failure to enact laws, and where there are laws failure of execution (e.g. land reform), misallocation of government budget, and misappropriation of the same due to inefficiency and corruption. So why blame the constitution for something that has not been implemented in its name?

    I agree that in some ways, the poor are being ‘coddled’ by giving them too much exemptions from income tax. I believe in the principle that if you earn one peso, a portion of that (e.g. 12 centavos) should be given to the government and allocated for common welfare. However, in terms of funds that are actually spent for the poor’s welfare and programs that would benefit them, i don’t think we can reach the same conclusion. For example, I don’t the Philippines has the same level of subsidized low-cost housing as they have here in Singapore.

    As for the Middle Class willingness to lose its freedoms and rights to move the country forward, that is a matter of record and is in fact the basis for “Let’s Move On” which you also supported. I was hoping you haven’t forgotten, as it has not been that long ago.

11. cocoy on August 27th, 2008 11:45 am

    cvj, i do not blame the constitution. time and again, i’ve written here on this blog and on my own that it doesn’t need to be changed as a perquisite to change. I even wrote my thoughts on the subject quite recently on that post entitled “The Folly of Good Intensions“. It isn’t a deal breaker. It isn’t requisite for making this nation a better one. But i can see where it can be of use.

    all i’m saying here and now is that our current constitution promotes a kind of social justice that cuddles. it promotes a society that is more focused on “human rights” rather than human dignity. it promotes entitlements over individual zeal. It promotes collectivism over entrepreneurship. This republic promotes big government and centralized planning. If history is to be judged then this Republic has not delivered on that promise of social justice.

    I’m not saying our Republic’s idea of Social Justice is wrong or that I’m right. All I’m saying that is what is right now.

    See– your idea of losing freedom is all about Gloria Arroyo and the fact she remains a resident of the palace. Mrs. Arroyo isn’t the issue. She isn’t the “main” problem. She isn’t the root cause of all evil. She’s just the embodiment of what ails this country and what’s wrong with it. Removing her other than through an election leads us to a darker, uncertain road. righting a wrong with another wrong is what has gotten us here and now. Gloria Arroyo, I think is the bitter pill our nation must take. Whether or not our nation realizes where it must go from here is not for any one person to say, it is for every Filipino to say. This is a democracy after all.

    Get a president in that doesn’t share Gloria’s point of view or her politics. If Mrs. Arroyo is guilty, let a court of law that isn’t questionable judge her— after her term has passed. That’s justice for us and fair enough for her.

    It isn’t through street protests and edsa revolutions that this nation can be changed. it is through elections and law and order and new ideas. It is through Courage rather than Fear; Courage rather than Anger; Courage rather than Hope that this nation can pick itself up.

    My idea of moving forward is through elections. What’s next? what can we do to change it. What’s in it for the future? I’m not interested in what has been. I’m interested, given where we are now, where do we go from here on out?

    Nation building I think is akin to painting or building something. The Artist or the Creator has an idea in his head. He knows what shape it will take.

    I’ve highlighted it before, but no one believes me. Part of the answer is through better politics, better political parties— because the battle has to be fought by those who play the insider’s game. That part of society has to change. The revolution has to happen in that theater of war to win this nation.

    The other side of the equation is what is already being done by our people. They are working their behinds off and many of them believe in economics as Adam Smith believed in.

    Economic Freedom is essential to Political Freedom. That when economics and politics are held by a few, no matter what we call a government or nation is— democracy, communist— monarchy or tomatocracy, ultimately it leads to tyranny.

12. Turning Social Justice into a Four-letter Word | Filipino Voices on August 27th, 2008 12:25 pm

    […] late, there has been an attempt here in FV to turn Social Justice into a four letter word and paint it as being part of a so-called ‘loser mentality’. I have no disagreement […]

13. chuck on August 27th, 2008 1:31 pm

    Cocoy (August 27th, 2008 11:45 am), in your second paragraph, you make use of the word ‘rather’ as if the concepts that you juxtapose are opposites, which i don’t believe is the case. For example, why set human rights and human dignity in opposition? Is it a given that collectivism is really the opposite of entrepreneurship? Isn’t a big corporation such as Singapore Airlines or San Miguel Corporation a collective as well?

    I take exception to your saying that my idea of losing freedom is all about Gloria Arroyo. That’s a mischaracterization of the nature of my opposition to her. I agree that she is the embodiment of the Elitist Mindset which is prevalent among the Upper and Middle Classes of Philippine Society. And again, need i remind you that it was Bong Austero, not me, who volunteered his freedom, and that you agreed with him?

    I have no disagreements with your last four paragraphs, so you can consider that there is at least one person who agrees with you.

14. Jon Limjap on August 27th, 2008 3:41 pm

    @chuck,

    When cocoy juxtaposed human rights vs. human dignity, what he meant was the way that Filipinos demanded certain concessions from the government as though they were god-given rights even if those things are actually earned.

    For example, when laborers ask for across-the-board minimum wage increases, they do so as if there will be no repercussions to the businesses that employ them. The simple fact is that many small to medium businesses will be forced to close when wage increases as big as 125/day are implemented.

    What disturbs me is the sheer number of people who depend on minimum wage increases for salary increases, as opposed to climbing the ranks in their careers to earn a raise. Obviously, the left-leaning will argue that this is because these are people who couldn’t have afforded themselves education and were victims of social injustice hence the lack of opportunities etcetera etcetera, but still we can’t weed out genuine victims from the utterly incompetent.

    I’m sure, chuck, that you are rearing to shout “There goes that middle class boy dissing the lower class again!” but seriously, I found that everyone I know who comes from lower class backgrounds and are brilliant and/or truly hard-working have found ways to make the minimum wage question totally irrelevant in their lives.

    Where is the dignity in earning a minimum wage, a number that pegs the greatest amount of earnings a person can get for the least amount of skill?

15. chuck on August 27th, 2008 5:26 pm

    Jon, no arguments with you on minimum wage. I’m on record as being for its removal.

16. cocoy on August 27th, 2008 5:54 pm

    Chuck, could you refresh my mind re: Bong Austero and what exactly did i agree with what he said? mind’s a bit hazy.

    edited. added this:

    oh, one more thing: jon, couldn’t have said it better.

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