Ameril Umbra Kato - O RLY? SRSLY?
Written on Sunday, October 5th, 2008 at 10:15 am | by The Jester-in-ExileSorry, folks, chores took longer than expected.
Text to follow. I’m doing my laundry.
In the meantime, watch the videos, so we have something to discuss afterwards.
Glad the discussion’s ongoing.
From Bangsamoro08:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Update from watching the videos, the raw footage apparently recorded last September 23, 2008, the YouTube video heavily cut.
Highlights:
Part 1
Time 0:59 - Kato denies that his group is a “lost command”. In 1:22, Kato seems to imply that his group’s actions were not done without sanction from the MILF high command.
Here’s something of interest from the MILF official website luwaran.com:
Some military commanders restless, MILF admits, dated June 16, 2008
The chief of staff of the MILF’s Bangsamoro Islamic Armed Forces (BIAF), Sammy Al-Mansoor, told Luwaran in an esclusive interview recently that he has to use extra efforts to make MILF military commanders stay on course in the light of the worsening situation of the GRP-MILF Peace Talks.
“The dilly-dallying of the government in the talks,” he said, “is feeding on the appetite of these commanders, who, most of them, detested the peace talks right at the start.”
Asked how many are these commanders, he said, “not so many, mostly belonging to the younger generation and idealist, but they are emerging.”
This is the first time Al-Mansoor, who rarely gives press statement, made an open admission of this kind, which, analyst said, is an honest statement.
As this developed, an MILF insider, who requested not to be named for lack of authority to speak on the matter, disclosed that there is an intense debate within the MILF regarding the peace talks in view of the bad attitude of the government.
The questions is begged — what or which MILF leadership is Kato following?
Time 3:00 - Kato claims that it was the AFP who began the conflict in North Cotabato, referencing an incident last July 1, 2008. Kato claims that Philippine Army and CAFGU - Aleosan, north cotabato attacked without provocation, MILF defended themselves (in 4:20 he implies that government troops were attempting to drive they who were local residents away from their homes)
Here are the reports I could find online within the time frame:
Philippine Army troops defend camps from MILF attacks, dated June 27, 2008, according to Philippine Army official website army.mil.ph.
Fighting Erupts Again in Aleosan, North Cotabato, dated July 2, 2008, according to Philippine Army official website army.mil.ph.
the report on Aleosan, as reported by MILF official website luwaran.com. No report on earlier attacks (maybe because the MILF failed to reach their objective).
Inquirer.net story referring to the July 1 incident, but not the June 27 incident.
Three report sources — you decide.
Time 6:52 - Kato claims it was a plot of GMA to escalate the conflict, making an implication that the MOA-AD was essentially a fait accompli.
Personally, I think his reasoning here is screwed.
Part 2
Time 0:00 - for the first one and a half minutes, Kato claims government soldiers run from his forces.
Time 2:10 - Kato implies that his actions are “jihad”, and that jihad is a part of worship.
(Well, maybe his.)
On another note, the rocket-propelled grenade warhead looks like a plastic stage prop instead of a weapon. A fake for purposes of psy-ops?
Time 3:35 - Kato begins his answer on the issue of the MILF recruiting child soldiers by claiming that in Islam, one is a minor if he is below ten years old, and that they are following the “rules of Islam”. He also implies that the MILF is unable to prevent the existence of child soldiers in their ranks who have joined out of “revenge”. He finally says categorically in 7:01 that the MILF does not recruit child soldiers, but in the same breath says that someone ten years and up is not a minor.
As such, it would seem that one of their armed followers who is thirteen, fourteen, or fifteen is to them NOT a child soldier.
(So we have an MILF commander implying that he is not following the Geneva Convention? Galeeeeeeeeng. Oh, and I haven’t seen that media footage on the “mudjahideen training” that Kato was speaking of.)
I will ask for someone to translate Part 3 and Part 4. Anybody want to help?
Interestingly enough, one will get to hear cellphone ringtones a number of times during the full run. Here’s a thought — triangulate the signal, locate the target, and service the target.
Your thoughts?
Tags: Bangsamoro, GRP-MILF MOA-AD, MILF, Mindanao, MINDANAO CONFLICT- Bayan Muna urges GRP, MILF to resume talks with human rights and humanitarian law as top agenda
- Lost-and-Found Commands and the Crime of Terrorism
- Are FV Bloggers “Destabilizers and Conspiracy Theorists”?
- The Terms of The Jester-in-Exile
- Stupid Cat, Wily Mouse
- The Terrorist Bill of Rights
Comments
89 Responses to “Ameril Umbra Kato - O RLY? SRSLY?”
GRRRRR!
that was succinct, djb.
is it just me or are those the SAME weapons that the Philippine army carries??
so many weapons in the wrong hands..
i dozed off except for “magalit ang mga taga-luzon kung pumunta kami doon at angkinin ang kanilang lupain…” that part, everyone agrees to methinks…
the rest goes into islamic blah blah (religion really sucks, be it christianity or islam)
Jester, still doing your laundry?
Ang tanong: meron ba talagang kumakamkam sa mga lupa ng mga Muslim?
Iyon ang hindi ko maintindihan eh.
Jon Limjap, you’re too lazy too look back to history which tells every root of the mess. don’t tell me pinanganak ka lang ngayon.
DJB, why you’re too allergic of secessionist movements when i think the “national unity” be here or in America, or out of this world, you advocate for tears instead people into pieces and pushes them into tragic divides? A dictated unity at the expense of individual choices and preferences is destructive.
thenashman, weapons in the wrong hands? other than the AFP/PAF bombing and shelling civilians; American invasion forces marauding other free nations, etc., etc., oh those clandestine state organized armed groups and thugs to make things worst, what is your qualification of the right hands to possess weapons?
thenashman, why not post here your “argument of irreligion” so we could thrash it out, let alone trash it.
would you give a gun to that kumander kato??? did you even hear his religous fundaMENTALIST extremist rant???
did you know the real issue about him, those he is talking about? you see, you judge according to your own personal perception which you consider unimpeachable like anybody else here. anyway, what he told are just fundamentalist rant to you. now i think it is reasonable for us to dig down to what makes him unleash that “fundamentalist rant.”
Danilo,
All I know is that the Muslims only started bitching about “their land” after the Jabidah Massacre. But the “outsiders” have been migrating to Mindanao a looong time before that (that Cebuano is the pre-dominant language points out that they’re from the Visayas, not Luzon!) with nary a story about the displacement of Muslims.
So, pardon my ignorance but, again, what land?
oh c’mon Jon!
i gotta admit, jon, the language predominancy (there’s an interesting mapping here) is a rather persuasive argument.
danilo u. ignacio,
you said:
my answer: nation-states… which the MILF is not.
thenashman,
you said:
my answer: i’d give him a bullet just for his answer on child soldiers.
danilo u. ignacio,
you said:
okay, let’s do that. let’s “dig down”.
you start. was it or was it not a fundamentalist rant? if it was not a fundamentalist rant, what was it?
Danilo,
O c’mon me? Muslims always go all proud about being the only “uninvaded” peoples of the archipelago. Yet they only started yammering about being “displaced” in the 1970s. C’mon, tell me, from the POV of Mindanao Muslims, what’s the score from your side?
What land? The land that was already occupied by Visayans and their descendants long before the Spanish had left?
Unbind me from my ignorance!
Jon, Patricio Abinales’ book Making Mindanao would be a good place to start.
cvj,
Of course it would be interesting to hear it from the “victims” themselves. Hey, where’s that Grace girl, I wanna hear her side too.
jon, you start your time reckoning after the Spaniards left, move back further. My elementary teacher taught me there are three major Islands that the Philippine state now claims: Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao. Visayans in Mindanao? Now who trampled upon land of whom? No taga-Luzons in Mindanao? c’mon again Jon. just read the MOA-AD jon and that is the very least part of the land I am talking about. I cannot propose you jon with books by non-muslim moreso muslim authors to read like vcj did because i fear it would never make sense to you, as DJB does with his “historical victimology”, especially when the author-out of his objectivity-seems to scratch the backs of the revolutionaries.
Jester-in-exile: only nation-states? what about those private persons accorded with license to have guns for their private use
by some states in America? Are they included in your qualification for legitimacy to have guns? These state-nations of the “civilized world” whom you said should only have the license to possess guns while invading other free nations around the world do the same things as “terrorists” do with their guns. Are they different? Since they are nation-states, would their crimes be left with impunity? if “terrorists” need to behave with their use of guns, so with these nation-states with their imperialism and invasions of other countries. Is this fair Jester?
Jester in exile, you said: “was it or was it not a fundamentalist rant? if it was not a fundamentalist rant, what was it?
Before my answer, let me ask you first: how do you define “fundamentalist”? Of course, it is rooted from the word “fundamental.” What is your own dictionary about “fundamental,” do you have your own definition, and i’ll answer you according to your vocabulary. If none, then let’s consider Mr. Webster’s.
Jon, i read Patricio Abinales’ book and contrary to your preconception, it does not dwell on victimhood of the Moro people. The reason why i recommended it is it does shed light on the land contention issue that you and Danilo have been discussing.
cvj, i have here “Muslim rulers and rebels” by Thomas M. McKenna. I’m still browsing over it.
I often meet Patricio Abinales in the Free Press, he has his own view about these subjects, but of course I respect it.
first point, on weapons:
your contention on “persons accorded with license to have guns for their private use by some states in America” is relevant to this discussion how? note that even your “some states in america” would not allow automatic rifles, machine guns, nor RPGs to be licensed for private use; mere possession of these weapons is a federal offense under the jurisdiction of the ATF, i have been told.
seriously, danilo. thenashman’s statement of “so many weapons in the wrong hands” in this discussion is rather unassailable.
secondly, your point that “these state-nations of the ‘civilized world’… invading other free nations around the world do the same things as ‘terrorists’ do with their guns” is still not merely irrelevant, it is erroneous when applied to this discussion. what invasion? what “free nation”?
the “bangsamoro” is not a free nation that was invaded by the philippines, and the MILF is not a a movement that was formed to defend this fictional nation-state from an invasion by the philippines. the MILF is a secessionist movement, a group that split from the MNLF, the original secessionist movement formed to carve mindanao away from the philippines.
on your second point on fundamentalist:
let’s begin. was there not a strong intolerance of other views and an implied opposition to secularism? a perfect example would be kato’s definition of a child soldier, which is allegedly aligned with islamic belief (which i rather doubt) and is not aligned with the geneva convention’s secular definition, and has been strongly maintained by kato.
Danilo, you begin by shuddering at my ignorance, and then end by “it would never make sense to you”. Whilst here I am appealing to you to make me understand the sentiment that you are representing.
Ah, this is why I love this cartoon so much (especially the LAST frame):
Oops, can’t embed pics. Link na lang:
Why God prefers Atheists
Jester-in-exile, you said: “secondly, your point that “these state-nations of the ‘civilized world’… invading other free nations around the world do the same things as ‘terrorists’ do with their guns” is still not merely irrelevant, it is erroneous when applied to this discussion. what invasion? what “free nation”?”
I thought you know what I am talking about in this particular point, sorry i missed making you connect to it.
let me ask further of your definition, re:fundamentalism- A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.”
With the exact meaning of the term, is there any wrong about being fundamental? Say, (I am speaking about Christianity generally) If I am a Christian and I’ll advocate among Christians to return to what Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) really taught about Christianity in the Bible, would I be called a fundamentalist Christian then? I think none of the Popes or Patriarchs, etc., would dare do the otherwise, i.e. they would always appeal to their flocks to comply religiously with the exact teachings of Jesus Christ (pbuh.)according to the Christian scriptures. If so, is there any wrong about it then?
The child soldier: Umbra Kato did not say there that Islam advocates for a child soldier conscription. He just defined child and the age-limit of being a child according to Islam i.e. 10 years old. That is, after that age, s/he is no longer a child, an adolescent instead who is now duty-bound to fulfill Islamic commandments including prayer, fasting, paying zakat (if s/he has the property to pay for) and so on and so forth and even Jihad-striving in the Way of Allah because he is already capable. and Jihad includes armed struggle for defense of Muslim community as the last to resort in case peaceful means fails.
In the case of the MILF, those children roaming around in MILF camps previously were children of MILF members themselves, including those slain. Now who are going to take care of them in their parents’ departure? MILF camps are not just plain military camps; these are communities with schools, clinics/hospitals, etc., apart from the military academies. I remember my CAT-PMT during my high school years when I saw the video presented by the AFP alleging MILF’s conscription of child soldiers. I cannot even understand the language in there.
But what about those children conscripted in those state-organized armed groups like CVOs and CAFGUs? The AFP denies these, but minors are indeed many here in the locality employed by the LGUs. The military really knows and see these and in fact they fight side by side with them against MILF but nothing is done to check it. Is there any different standard with respect to them?
Jon, I understand you why you embraced atheism, by implication, because to you no religions can clear any irreligious doubts. But one last step further jon and you will become Muslim. Athiests say, “there is no God,” we Muslims too say “there is no God,” but then immediately continue “but only Allah.” so step further Jon, i know athiests are reasonable and employs “scientific methods” in understanding things. hahaha
Danilo,
No, actually I’m a practicing Catholic.
And YOU are still not answering my question.
danilo,
first point — yes, i probably missed it. see, i don’t know what invasion nor free nation nor army defending against the invasion you’ve been alluding to. as i pointed out in 11:01 above, it can’t very well be bangsamoro and the MILF.
clear that up for me. what invasion? what free nation?
second point — is there anything wrong with being a fundamentalist, you ask? answer: as highlighted above, intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism. is tolerance of other beliefs a bad thing?
this conflict is not between christian and muslim. this conflict is between the republic and secessionists. that “christian vs. muslim” idiocy is simply a convenient banner to rally people to a cause branded “us vs. they who are not like us”.
besides, i know quite a number of muslims who are moros who consider themselves filipinos, who likewise decry that “christian vs. muslim” idiocy (heck, they’ve even more scathing words than i use).
on child soldier conscription: note that yours and kato’s definition of child is not the same as that of the geneva convention. it follows then that yours and kato’s definition of child soldier is not the same as that of the geneva convention. the 7:01 on part 2 is telling.
had kato said that the MILF does not recruit soldiers below 18 in accordance with the geneva convention on children’s non-involvement in combat, despite 10 being the traditional age of maturity in islamic belief, then perhaps i might have let the issue go.
however, with his categorical statement that kids 10 and up are considered not minors and thus are bound to the tenets and worship of islam (as you likewise support in your 11:34 comment), and his categorical statement that “jihad is a form of worship”… do the math.
on your point that CVOs and CAFGUS conscript minors (implying the argument “why are you picking on us when they’re doing it too?”) — he who alleges must prove. show me proof.
you’re building quite a number of issues you haven’t been answering, it seems.
Danilo, thanks for the book pointer, they have it in the Singapore National Library so i can check it out in my free time.
Jester-in-exile, my post on the “civilized world” and “free nations” is anchored on your argument of “nations-states” to be accorded only with the legitimacy to have weapons. I am talking globally here, by “civilized world” i mean America and other western countries, free nations, means those countries they invade, so that it is implied in your posts that any groups which choose to defend themselves no matter how legitimate their defense is, is still denied by you of the right to have weapons and that it is ok to let go these imperialist invaders of their state organized crimes against humanity because after all they are nation-states.
on the CVO/CAFGU, i am not picking on you unless you tolerate it. if you want proof, other than being a dedicated blogger, be a committed journalist too, come here in Mindanao and observe things your own eyes. that way, you can get not just “unimpeachable” source of information but even have a first-hand data. for initial knowledge, read the 80-page study of Agnes Zenaida Camacho of the University Center for Integrative and Development Studies at the University of the Philippines on child soldiers in state-organized armed groups i.e., CVO/CAFGU.
“is tolerance of other beliefs a bad thing?” it’s you who can answer that Jester. why you question Kato’s definition of child and adolescent if you answer in affirmative.
“this conflict is not between christian and muslim.” you don’t need me to educate on this. I am just wonder whether is this the first time you utter this line? Not in our case here in Mindanao. Christian-Muslim NGOs are already on their nerve-breaking pro-active advocacy here uttering such line to the government. we have Bishop-Ulama Forum based in CDO, the Silsilah based in Zamboanga, NDU Peace Center, etc., etc., so it is not our first time here to utter that line of yours. instead of solving and addressing realistically the Mindanao problem, it is the government that insidiously and maliciously converts the issue to be so. So, by implication, why are picking on me, on us in this subject?
fundamenatlism again, is my example here of being a “fundamental” wrong? If i go back to the fundamental teaching of my religion, say Christianity that every Christian knows well as so, would it be wrong? why? unless you take the Western constructed definition of the term in their modern-day imperialism, then yours varies from mine.
Jihad. Yeah, prayers, fasting, zakat, pilgrimage are forms of worships. They are also forms of Jihad so therefore Jihad is worship. I follow your math Jester. But not the other doctored math to judge things with prejudice in their own lenses.
Filipinos. have you researched what really it is Jester? Other than being forced because of being in the Philippine state, do you accept yourself as so? Sa isip, sa salita, at sa gawa? If so, Please upload a post about it next for further discourse. I challenge you.
I tell you Moros can never be Filipinos, or natives of these Islands now called Philippines can never be Filipinos.
Jon, need to post again huh! “read the MOA-AD jon and that is the very least part of the land I am talking about.” for you to have answer why these lands, read history books again and again.
From what I understand in the history vis-a-vis the MOA-AD, the Muslims never had any dominance or rule over the indigenous peoples they supposedly represent (the leaders of the lumad said this themselves).
Whatever lands the Muslim sultanates had, I have the impression that they were already covered by the ARMM.
Of course I wouldn’t be surprised if tomorrow the Muslims claim the whole of Mindanao.
Again, the Mindanao conflict is not a conflict between Christians and Muslims. This is definite. But the Mindanao conflict that the MILF upholds is a sovereignty conflict. It is far different and detached from NPA’ ideology-based insurgency; from ASG’s terrorism, from Pentagon KFR extortion activities, etc., etc. Most of the time, these groups are but projects of military psywar experts.
The loophole in understanding is that people tend to lump indiscriminately all violence in Mindanao generally as the Mindanao problem.
“Whatever lands the Muslim sultanates had, I have the impression that they were already covered by the ARMM.”—my goodness!
Note that the sultans were different from the “sultans” of the ARMM you allude here. Below are just traditional politicians, vassals of the Malacanang who exploit their own people.
you see jon, IPs (or lumad a cebuano term (yata) therefore not a high lander term that the Philippine state coined for them) especially here in Central Mindanao are brethren according to the tradition. Mamalu (forefather of the IPs) was an elder brother of Tabunaway (forefather of the Moros here in Central Mindanao who reverted to Islam with the coming of Shariff Kabunsuan)
IPs are protectorate of the Moro sultanate. But in the MOA-AD, it is explicit in there that the concession of the IPs for inclusion or exclusion is considered and given due value.
Unfortunately, in order to make things worst and block the legitimacy of the MOA-AD, the Philippine government through IPRA law and other related legislations which in reality stolen the legitimate rights of the IPs in their ancestral lands, has managed to organize heads of the IPs here to vote for exclusion from BJE.
The IPs of the Mountain Province should be aware of this malicious clandestine maneuver by the government while asserting their ancestral rights. Please read “The Long Road to Peace” by Salah Jubair, oh he is a revolutionary ideologue as JoeMa Sison, says DJB. Wouldn’t he make any sense to you too?
Danilo,
Now you’re talking! It’s much better that you express your sentiments here than insulting us with a “you would never understand” rhetoric.
Anyway, this is the way I see how things happened:
- MOA-AD is signed. MOA-AD clearly states that MILF military positions should first be vacated in order to conduct plebiscites within one year
- Filipino people (aka “the invaders”) voice uproar over MOA-AD — an uproar they have a right to express, IMHO. Supreme Court mulls constitutionality, issues TRO
- Impatient Umbra Kato defies the agreement, refuses to vacate positions in Lanao del Norte
- Chaos ensues
Seriously, the recent conflict does not appear to be in any way related to whether the Philippine government is willing to give concessions to the MILF or not. It was, in fact, ready to sign the MOA-AD anyway. It’s the stubbornness of petty warfreaks like Ameril Umbra Kato that triggered this new wave of conflict.
Justifying his acts is no different from justifying the temper tantrums of a child — unfortunately that child held a submachine gun on one hand and a bolo on the other, and hacked heads off, took lives and burnt houses in the process.
Umbra Kato has no one to blame for the failure of the MOA-AD but himself.
danilo,
re your 1:20.
paragraph 1: “so that it is implied in your posts that any groups which choose to defend themselves no matter how legitimate their defense is…” et sequentia.
answer: yes, if the defense is legitimate. france had the resistance in WW2 when germany invaded them — that’s legitimate. MILF want to break apart the republic — that is NOT legitimate.
paragraph 2: “if you want proof, other than being a dedicated blogger, be a committed journalist too, come here in Mindanao and observe things your own eyes.”
answer: pay for my fare and i’ll take you up on that. i’ll look that study up, too. of course, that would be me getting the answer instead of you being up to the challenge and answering the question.
paragraph 3: why (do) you question Kato’s definition of child and adolescent if you answer in affirmative(?)
answer: this is contingent on whether or not the MILF recognizes the geneva convention and is committed to follow it — which the republic does and is committed to. if the MILF does, then the question has to stand. if the MILF does not, then i will have no recourse but to ask whether or not islam truly teaches that kids not even in their teens should be allowed to become cannon fodder? i don’t think it does.
paragraph 4a: I am just wondering whether (this is) the first time you utter this line?
answer: of course not. i’ve always considered the conflict to be between republic and secessionist.
paragraph 4b: instead of solving and addressing realistically the Mindanao problem, it is the government that insidiously and maliciously converts the issue to be so.
answer: really? so why does kato keep on making statements implying strongly that christians are the enemy? is he a part of “the government that insidiously and maliciously converts the issue to be so”?
paragraph 5: unless you take the Western constructed definition of the term in their modern-day imperialism, then yours varies from mine.
answer: i think that definition of the common usage of the word is good enough for the discussion begun by thenashman.
paragraph 6: I follow your math, (b)ut not the other doctored math to judge things with prejudice in their own lenses.
answer: so you follow. good. now what? as this relates to paragraph 3, should kids from ten to seventeen be put to war?
paragraph 7: do you accept yourself as (filipino)?
answer: hell, yeah. my personal blog will attest to that, as does the way i’ve lived my life.
paragraph 8: I tell you Moros can never be Filipinos.
answer: why not? i’ve moro friends who are filipinos — to get even more personal, i dated a moro muslim filipina a long time ago. if you don’t want to be filipino, do a jude cross and leave the republic to the filipinos.
paragraph 9: for you to have answer why these lands (?), read history books again and again.
answer: from what i’ve read of that, as well as parallels to other countries, if we are to accept your formula, then we might as well demolish practically all currently existing nation-states, won’t we? your favorite example the united states of america has to return everything back to the “first nations” of cherokee, apache, navajo, et cetera; the arab world was once populated by individual tribes before they were conquered and made to submit (pun intentional), and they may as well return the conquered lands back to the descendants of these tribes; heck, israel has to return jerusalem to the descendants of the jebusites; japan might as well return its lands back to the ainu, australia back to the bushmen. can your formula thus stand?
and now moving on — i’m glad there’s some concrete answers now coming out, so let me join in your discussion with jon, who said
on this i agree… but jon, weren’t kato’s latest actions in north cotabato?
i take exception to the “aka ‘invaders’”, of course.
Jester,
I stand corrected.
^^To correct myself as well, MOA-AD wasn’t signed. It’s signing was only scheduled, but never pushed through.
“Impatient Umbra Kato defies the agreement, refuses to vacate positions in Lanao del Norte” Ha? what “agreement” Jon? Has there been any agreement between the GRP and the MILF? It’s my first time to hear it, i am ignorant of it. I pray enlighten me about this.
And where in this part of the Philippines you’ll send Kato, Bravo and his men after they “vacate” their own lands and territories? There in Visayas? Luzon? Kato told that mas lalo magagalit ang mga taga-Luzon or taga-Visayas if they’ll settle there, didn’t he?
“It’s the stubbornness of petty warfreaks like Ameril Umbra Kato that triggered this new wave of conflict.”
who is the real warfrake Jon? You see these men just hide in swamps or in mountains just to evade the conflict from escalating. Believe you me, I never saw the face of Umbra kato for the life of me prowling the poblacions as the military reports except in the youtube. But despite that, the military still runs after them.
Who is really warfreak Jon? Kato? or GMA and his hawkish generals? Or Pinol? or the Malacanang-dependent ARMM officials who have no say despite their “voters” are bombed and mortared by the military?
You see, there had been firefights in North Cotabato because Vice Gov. Pinol, an ilonggo politician, does not want those MUslim populated barangays which are MILF territories to vote freely whether for inclusion or exclusion in the BJE. Why? because Pinol maintains vast tracts of lands for his farms and plantations there. I do not know how he got these lands. the same happened there in Luzon and Visayas when elite solons with other hacienderos resisted the implemetation of the CARP/CARL even as early as 1965. Ciguro dun napasama pamilya ni Pinol when landless tenants were flushed out from Luzon and the Visayas by these greedy folks and settled here in Mindanao. Now kabilang na si Pinol sa greedy.
“unfortunately that child held a submachine gun on one hand and a bolo on the other, and hacked heads off, took lives and burnt houses in the process.”
Jon, please come here and you will know who is really burning houses, killing civilians. Perhaps, I am exaggerating and fabricating lies to you, so leave your computer there and here come! and you’ll see by your own naked eyes!
Did I insulted you Jon with my posts here? Where here? I am just telling what I believe to be true which you have all the freedom to check more so rectify.
on your question “there been any agreement between the GRP and the MILF? — we agreed to talk, didn’t they?
granting that there was no agreement at all, the attack by kato on north cotabato precipitated a response by the afp. but of course; north cotabato is sovereign territory of the republic that was occupied by the rebels. note that the CCH has confirmed that there was indeed burning of houses and such by kato’s group.
the articles provided above show that indeed there is a pattern to these field commanders acting aggressively — gung-ho, if you will.
as to the pinol issue that you have raised just now, i await multiple independent verifiable confirmation.
Danilo,
You mean Kato and his men can’t seek shelter with other MILF units (where is the MILF HQ nowadays? Maguindanao still?)? Fine if they live in North Cotabato, but can’t they pass on their arms to their comrades in the MILF or something?
Now you speak of “Malacañang-dependent ARMM officials” — aren’t these Muslims too, now you insult them too? Aren’t they Muslims that your fellow Muslims elect into their office? What is so different about this men and the MILF, other than the territorial boundaries that they drew?
Is the difference their willingness to integrate with the Philippine republic instead of drive away all those damned invaders and declare independence?
This is really, really interesting. Enlighten me some more!
The burden of proof regarding the burnings and murders isn’t mine, Danilo. I hope that, if you’ve personally witnessed these atrocities by the government or by the CAFGUs or what not, you would’ve taken pictures.
On a side note, I’m heading over to Davao this weekend — my second time in Mindanao (I was in Camiguin last month). Let me see if I would learn something there.
oh, and on your question where i’d send kato and company: jail. homicide and arson, for starters.
and still on how i feel about kato and those similar who’ve done these things, vis-a-vis how i feel about the republic, i had this previous post on what i would dare demand of them:
DDR. OR DIE.
Jester-in-Exile: You said: “MILF want to break apart the republic — that is NOT legitimate.”
Answer: Oh yeah? When East Timor, while on the process of breaking up from Indonesia was NOT (YET) legitimate? When individual states of USSR while on the process of disintegrating themselves were NOT (YET) legitimate? When Pakistan while on its way to independence from India was NOT (YET) legitimate?
If you are, say, tired and sick of injustices and unfairness within your family, the whole family declared you “black sheep” and you’ll tell your bully “ates”and “kuyas” and parents: “Please leave me alone!, I do not want you anymore in my life!” is that NOT legitimate?
You said: “answer: pay for my fare and i’ll take you up on that. i’ll look that study up, too.”
Answer: You lost your rationality here.
You said: paragraph 3: why (do) you question Kato’s definition of child and adolescent if you answer in affirmative(?)”
Answer: I should mean negative here. Jester, Kato is definite that the MILF is NOT recruiting minors. He is just explaining what is a child according to Islam. After all, did the military caught MILF casualty who is a child? Not even once?
You said: “so why does kato keep on making statements implying strongly that christians are the enemy?” Where? In his vernacular? Or Tagalog? I Think none in there. He just told perhaps that the Philippine government which is manned and advised by some men who happened to be Christians, the military who marauds civilian communities (but they say they are protecting civilians, huh!) who happened to be Christians are the MILF’s enemies. Those Christians who understand the Mindanao conflict and who are not at war against them are not their enemies.
You said: “answer: so you follow. good. now what? as this relates to paragraph 3, should kids from ten to seventeen be put to war?”
Answer: Kids or adolescents? Kids? No!!! Should the military bomb and shell kids? Yesss!!! It does here!
You said: “paragraph 7: do you accept yourself as (filipino)? “answer: hell, yeah. my personal blog will attest to that, as does the way i’ve lived my life.”
Answer: hahaha!
You said: “if you don’t want to be filipino, do a jude cross and leave the republic to the filipinos.” Yeah, very well. That’s why I am here in Mindanao.
You said: “answer: from what i’ve read of that, as well as parallels to other countries, if we are to accept your formula, then we might as well demolish practically all currently existing nation-states, won’t we?”
Answer: Yeah, why not? USSR had disintegrated and have individual states now. Yugoslavia too. East Timor was freed from Indonesia. India departed from Pakistan though they have the same race. Etc., etc., this tells that nation-states boundaries are just artificial. Not in the case here in the Philippines? Yeah? Gosh! What diplomatic standard is that?
Jester-in-exile, You said: “and still on how i feel about kato and those similar who’ve done these things, vis-a-vis how i feel about the republic, i had this previous post on what i would dare demand of them:
DDR. OR DIE.”
the soldiers too, they also die. And they are not telling the same thing as you do, though they are in the battlefield, while you are there sitting comfortably at your computer with your coffe.
^^LOL re USSR. I assume you ARE aware that your fellow Muslims in Chechnya are insisting on their independence as well. Apparently not all such “states” are created equal.
The only lesson I am learning from this conversation: Muslims cannot coexist with other people unless they are the religious majority in said specific territory, and have control of the government — otherwise they will arm themselves and wreak havoc.
I hope I’m wrong.
i know soldiers die. i’ve lost friends that way.
it is exactly out of respect for their sacrifice that i dare demand that — and had i had the capability to exercise it myself i certainly would.
i’ll work up an answer to your 3:24 in a bit.
(are you — as opposed to your presumption of me — uncomfortable where you are, posting at your computer?)
for JON:
(sorry jester-in-exile, i messed your blogsite with this long article.)
Amid fighting, clan rules in Maguindanao
By Jaileen F. Jimeno, Philippine Center For Investigative Journalism
Thursday, September 04. 2008
MAGUINDANAO: The sound of sirens precedes the passing of a long convoy of 4×4 sport utility vehicles. As if on cue, jeepneys and private vehicles begin moving to the right side of the street, where they stop.
“Kailangan tumabi ka, kasi babanggain ka nila. Palalabasin nilang kaaway ka [You have to get out of their way, otherwise they’ll hit your car. And then they’ll make it appear you’re one of their enemies],” said an old man watching the scene by the roadside.
Asked if he knows whose convoy of black, heavily tinted vehicles is whizzing by, the man replied without hesitation: “Si Governor. Ganyan ang mga sasakyan niya [The Governor. That’s how his vehicles look like].”
In the last two weeks, this southern province has become one of the sites of a serial cat-and-mouse battle between soldiers and rebels from a faction of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF), displacing thousands of people. But the armed clashes aside, residents here know that only one family wields real power in Maguindanao: the Ampatuans, led by its acknowledged patriarch, Governor Andal Ampatuan.
It may not only be peace between combatants but respite from political clans that Maguindanao needs.
The Ampatuans are just the latest in a long line of political dynasties that have endured in Mindanao. Yet while the Ampatuan clan has lorded over Maguindanao only since 2001, several of its members have already managed to grab key government positions, elective and appointive, and not only in the province itself.
In 2005, Andal Ampatuan’s son Zaldy, then 38 years old, became the governor of the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao (ARMM), the youngest ever to head the regional government.
And if the results of the recent ARMM polls are any indication, the Ampatuans seem to be digging in for the long haul. The baby-faced Zaldy took more than 90 percent of the votes among seven candidates in the ARMM elections held just a few weeks ago. His closest rival Indanan Mayor Alvarez Isnaji got just over 2 percent of the votes.
It did not help Isnaji any that he was battling kidnapping charges filed by the Philippine National Police (PNP) against him and his son, Haider, midway through the campaign. But Ma. Krizna Gomez of the Legal Network for Truthful Elections (LENTE) observes: “We were all surprised to not see any election campaign materials [other than Zaldy Ampatuan’s] around the province. The dynasty runs deep into the entire political setup and this is capped by the election result itself.”
Guns, Palace blessing
Andal Ampatuan has four wives and more than 30 children, and intermarriages with other political clans have made his political stock stronger. But political analysts trace the clan’s formidable clout to two main factors: guns and the blessings of Malacañang. They even note that no less than the Palace made it legal for the Ampatuans to have hundreds of armed men and women under their employ.
The 1987 Constitution bans private armed groups. In July 2006, however, the Arroyo administration issued Executive Order 546, allowing local officials and the police to deputize barangay tanods as “force multipliers” in the fight against insurgents. In practice, the executive order allows local officials to convert their private armed groups into legal entities with a fancy name: civilian volunteer organizations.
Interestingly, President Gloria Arroyo issued the Executive Order just weeks after a bombing in the Shariff Aguak public market that killed five people. Andal Ampatuan, who has survived several other ambushes, was said to have been the target.
According to a military officer who served for 16 years in ARMM—five of them in Maguindanao—Andal Ampatuan employs about 200 civilian volunteer organization members. The officer added that Ampatuan’s sons and relatives maintain armed men, supposedly for their protection. (Andal’s eldest son Saudi was killed in a bomb blast in Shariff Aguak 2002.)
“Everybody carries firearms, mga paltik [homemade guns],” said the military officer. “Or [they] either borrow from the military or the PNP, or they buy.”
A soldier who spent five years on assignment in Maguindanao said of the civilian volunteer organizations here: “They support the internal security requirement of the capitol or the municipio.” He adds that while some of the civilians are paid by the local government in areas where they serve, they are often “borrowed” for personal use by local officials.
And whenever they board the back of spiffy pickups that are staples of Ampatuan convoys, these civilian members typically lug long firearms. At times, the convoys of 20 vehicles or more also begin and end with pickups mounted with big machine guns.
Indeed, long before the military resumed chasing the MILF in earnest across the region, Maguindanao was already dotted with checkpoints. Soldiers manned entrances to municipal halls, and armored vehicles hogged major road networks.
The Philippine Center of Investigative Journalism tried for months to interview Andal Ampatuan here and during his visits in Manila, but Maguindanao provincial administrator Norie Unas repeatedly said the governor does not grant interviews. Instead, it has been Unas who has fielded questions.
In an interview late last year, Unas said the older Ampatuan’s political stance has earned his clan several enemies, hence the need for heightened security. Unas explained that while previous Maguindanao leaders played footsies with secessionist forces, “Governor Ampatuan is not really sympathetic to the MILF or other forces wishing for a separatist Muslim state.”
But Datu Michael Mastura, former congressman of Maguindanao’s First District, seems less than convinced by the argument. “I will tell you, the word ‘impunity’ does not even suit it. It’s inappropriate,” he said, referring to the Ampatuans’ chronic show of force. Pointing to the clan’s numerous bodyguards and vehicles, Mastura wonders aloud: “Just imagine, how do you maintain them? How do you house them?”
No one here is ready to come forward with any answers to that, but at the very least, the presence of armed men and women helps explain why residents would rather not do anything to cross an Ampatuan. One journalist who unwittingly did is certainly thankful that all he got was a dressing-down from the provincial governor.
The journalist had helped a colleague get in touch with the Ampatuans for an article that the governor apparently perceived to be unflattering. The helpful journalist said he was summoned to the governor’s mansion and there received a tongue-lashing. “I just sat there,” he said, “and took it, not saying a word.”
‘Hello, Garci’ then 12-0 in 2007
To some political analysts, it is easy to explain why the Ampatuans command solid hold on Maguindanao: The clan enjoys close ties with the Palace in faraway Manila, simply because the clan has managed to deliver the votes for administration candidates.
In its 2007 Elections Forensics Report, the Center for People Empowerment in Governance (CenPEG) reported: “The Ampatuan dynasty based in Maguindanao province is [President] Arroyo’s present conduit in helping ensure her influence over the whole of Mindanao, which hosts many of the country’s grizzled but otherwise powerful political clans.”
During the 2004 presidential elections, “[Governor Andal] Ampatuan addressed the political requirement of [Mrs.] Arroyo,” said Bobby Tuazon, the center’s director for policy study, publication and advocacy. “She needed somebody to control the votes.”
In the controversial “Hello, Garci” recordings, then elections Commissioner Virgilio Garcillano was heard saying that Maguindanao would not be “much of a problem” for President Arroyo. His words turned out to be more than prophetic, with Maguindanao giving Mrs. Arroyo 193,938 votes, against the 59,892 votes obtained by popular action film star Fernando Poe Jr. In Ampatuan and Datu Piang towns, Poe even scored zero, and in the capital Shariff Aguak and other Maguindanao towns, received just a handful of votes.
In the 2007 congressional and local elections, the 12 senatorial candidates of the administration’s Team Unity slate made a clean sweep of the polls in Maguindanao, or scored 12-0, to be exact. Family members and allies of the Ampatuans who ran for local positions also clinched wins.
Maguindanao officials have since brushed off suspicions of election fraud, saying local candidates did not bother campaigning for their own seats. They said that “negotiations” were held before the elections to “amicably” settle the battle for positions. Besides, they note, many of the Ampatuan candidates had run unopposed and thus had devoted time to campaign for the administration’s senatorial slate.
In an interview last year, Maguindanao Provincial Administrator Unas said political contests here are settled even before any balloting through “consultation and consensus-building.”
“People are critical of our system and ridicule us for the manner by which we choose our leaders,” he said. But, he asserted, it is a system that works for the province, “not that demo-democracy.”
“We know that the Manila system does not fit us,” Unas said. “We have stabilized the political landscape because there’s no contest every election. This is one better way for us Muslims coming out with our leaders.”
But Ely Manalansan Jr., a fellow of the Center for People Empowerment in Governance, insisted that shura or the Islamic practice of consultation was not a factor in Team Unity’s 12-0 win in Maguindanao. He said that even Islamic experts dismiss such an assertion, adding, “[It] merely serves as a justification for the widespread and systematic fraud perpetrated by the administration during elections in Mindanao.”
Last year, public schoolteacher Musa Dimasidsing had also revealed that days before the 2007 vote, he had seen teachers and students writing and then putting their thumb marks on ballots. Days after he spoke up, Dimasidsing was shot dead. His murder remains unsolved.
No ‘big man’ monopoly
Tuazon, also of the Center of People Empowerment in Governance, cautioned against stereotyping this conduct of elections as unique to Maguindanao and ARMM. “Oligarchs also rule in Luzon and Visayas, and you will see a lot of similarities in what is happening there in the Moro homeland.”
“Ampatuan is no different from [Luis] Chavit Singson,” said Fr. Eliseo Mercado Jr., who briefly chaired the government peace panel with the MILF. Singson, former governor of Ilocos Sur in northern Luzon, has built a reputation for keeping an iron grip on his home province.
Unas himself acknowledges the perception that Ampatuan is a warlord. Reached by phone recently, he said, “May katotohanan din siguro. The same way na may perception na warlord sina Joson [of Nueva Ecija] at Singson, [Probably there’s truth to that. The same way there is a perception that the Josons of Nueva Ecija and the Singsons are warlords].”
But the provincial administrator denied that the capitol pays for the civilian volunteer organizations protecting Ampatuan and his clan. He said the civilians are hired and funded by town mayors, while those who guard the governor are made up of soldiers, policemen, and civilians “who, as Muslims, will die for their leader.”
This relationship between leaders and the governed, said Unas, has its roots in the history of Muslim communities down south, and is found not only in Maguindanao.
Poverty, mega projects
In Mercado’s view, the resiliency of the Ampatuan clan will rest mainly on its ability to deliver the needs of its constituents. Then again, if Mercado is right, the Ampatuans’ days in power may be numbered, based on the province’s sorry showing in several sectors.
For one, despite the Ampatuans’ expanded powerbase, Maguindanao’s poverty numbers are worsening. In 2000, the poverty incidence was recorded at 59.3 percent. It grew to 60.4 percent in 2003, and rose further to 62 percent in 2006, turning Maguindanao into the third poorest province in the country.
For another, Maguindanao’s spending for education remains low, even as the elementary teacher-to-pupil ratio has worsened to 51 in school year 2005 to 2006, from 43.9 in school year 2000 to 2001.
These bad statistics are among the reasons why, according to the Philippine Human Development Report of 2005, only 39.7 percent of adults in Maguindanao have six years of basic education, compared with the national average of 84 percent.
Also, the 2005 report revealed that Maguindanao has the second lowest life expectancy in the Philippines at 52 years, edged out only by Tawi-Tawi’s 51.2 years. The National Statistical Coordination Board (NSCB) reports as well that the number of health stations in the province has remained stagnant at 163, from 2000 to 2006.
Amid worsening poverty and education services for its population of 600,000 as of last year, Maguindanao has been pouring money into new town halls and a bigger capitol. The latter is now estimated to cost the province about P116 million, or nearly twice as much as the original price tag of P60 million.
According to Unas, Andal Ampatuan had asked President Arroyo for help in funding the new capitol project. Mrs. Arroyo, Unas said, committed an initial P20 million, paving the way for construction work to start.
The renovation project has since evolved into a government center that will feature other huge structures, including a sports-and-culture center that would cost P80 million.
Maguindanao is not lacking in funds. On top of benefiting from foreign and ARMM-funded projects, it received an internal revenue allotment of P555 million in 2005, which grew to P633 million the following year.
Yet of the P590-million budget the capitol lined up for 2006, P124 million or 21 percent was set aside for the provincial governor’s office alone. More than P185 million or 31 percent, meanwhile, went to the salaries and benefits of the capitol’s 587 employees.
The people’s view
The people in Maguindanao offer a common opinion of Andal Ampatuan as “mabait [a good person].” One resident said, “If you need a job, he’ll provide one for you.” Another said, “We don’t say no to him because he takes care of us.”
But such positive comments almost always come with a caveat: “Basta sundin mo ang gusto niya [As long as you do as he says].”
“He is like a pharaoh. That’s what people call him,” said Mastura, himself a member of one of Mindanao’s prominent families. “You don’t go against his wishes.”
The one person who has tried to keep the Ampatuans in check, albeit in his own turf, is Davao City Mayor Rodrigo Duterte.
Over the years, Duterte, who is known for his tough stance against crime, has repeatedly warned various clans—not only the Ampatuans, to be sure—against “misbehaving” in Davao City. But Duterte has also zeroed in on younger Ampatuan scions for using sirens whenever they drive around Davao. In 2006, Duterte let it rip when three Ampatuan youths were arrested in his city for possession of high-powered firearms, including rifles fitted with telescopic sights, and rounds of ammunition.
“Davao City is not your kingdom,” a fuming Duterte had reportedly said. “If you want to show off, you better do it in your place, not here.”
Unfortunately for Duterte, Maguindanao has no known nightlife to keep privileged youths entertained and occupied.
Once the sun sets in this province, the roads turn empty, save for one or two vehicles rushing to their destinations, and the occasional convoy of huge, black cars and pickups flashing their lights and sounding their sirens. Invariably, the convoy carries an Ampatuan as passenger.
Clan hires young guns to rule, terrorize Mindanao province
By Jaileen F. Jimeno, Philippine Center For Investigative Journalism
Friday, September 05 2008
Editor’s note: This is a sidebar to the story published Thursday about how the Ampatuan clan is lording over Maguindanao province, where a number of civilian volunteer organizations are tapped to work as hired guns.
All over the world, the practice of engaging children and teenagers in criminal gangs and private armies continues unabated. The Philippines is no exception.
A little-known academic study documents how minors are being recruited down South in private armies better known as civilian volunteer organizations or CVOs. These groups help keep village adults in a perpetual state of fear and obeisance, even if some of the “volunteers” have not moved past puberty.
The 80-page study was conducted across a five-month period in 2003 by researchers led by Agnes Zenaida Camacho of the University Center for Integrative and Development Studies at the University of the Philippines.
The study focused on three towns of Maguindanao and the use of minors by the pagali or clan to keep itself in power. The researchers interviewed 10 young civilian members, who had to be assigned pseudonyms in the report, for their own protection.
Most of the young members were recruited into the armed group as replacement for their fathers who had been killed in action, the researchers learned. Of the 10 interviewees, only two were 18 years old at the time they started working for a pagali. One interviewee was drafted into service when he was only 10 years old, and the seven others, in their early teens.
The study noted that while the civilian volunteer organizations were organized to assist in defending towns against insurgents, “in certain parts of the Philippines, local politicians are reportedly heavily arming and using members of CVOs in their respective localities as private armies.”
An unpaid family loan to the pagali child to join the organization. Yet when he was ready to pay, the pagali, a mayor, gave the child a gun and ordered him to kill someone before his payment would be accepted. Left with no choice, the child said he did as he was told.
Disobedience entails serious punishment. “Failing to follow orders to murder a pagali enemy is punishable by death,” the researchers said.
For most of the interviewees, however, conscription into the civilian volunteers unfolds as a slow process. The new entrants are given small jobs at first, like escorting members of the clan when they venture outside their homes. The recruits do this with issued firearms in tow. Once their loyalty and adherence to the code of silence is proven, they are inducted into “malalaking lakad [big jobs],” mainly involving crime, the researchers said.
“From the interviews with the children, these range from kidnapping, extortion, instigating displacement, murder, torture, and drug trafficking,” the report said.
Among the most benign activities that the civilian members said they did was to collect P20 from vehicles passing the highway. There are other tasks. An interviewee said he was assigned to a pagali’s marijuana plantation near the province’s marshlands.
Others said they served in the pagali’s “business” ventures, including dealing in shabu or metamphetamine hydrochloride, and doubled as dealers. The report said the illegal trade reached as far as General Santos City, Davao City and Manila, according to the study.
To one interviewee, these transactions explain how a pagali could afford to live it up. “How do you think they are able to afford a mansion or luxury cars?” the interviewee asked.
The report unraveled more details. “Another child interviewee said that the pagali in his area, a mayor, conducted ‘operations’ or raids against selected areas particularly after the rice harvesting season—to steal the crops after the residents of the target areas had evacuated their homes and farms.”
“I guess that’s why some CVOs have gotten used to stealing,” the researchers said, quoting one of the interviewees as saying. “When you think about it, the mayor is really behind everything.”
Grisly deaths
The university study includes even more gruesome stories, notably one told by “Rudy,” who was recruited into a civilian volunteer organization unit when he was 17.
A scion of the pagali had been killed in a bomb blast, and soon after, three teenagers suspected of involvement were brought to the compound of another son of the clan’s chief.
The three suspects met tragic deaths. “One was killed using machetes, while another was peppered with bullets,” the university report said Rudy had recounted. “The eldest of the youths suffered the worst: his limbs were cut off using a chain saw.”
The civilian members were directed to put salt in the suspect’s wounds and then the “cut parts of his body with a chain saw while he was still alive,” Rudy was quoted as saying. The civilian members present were later instructed to dump the suspects’ bodies in a nearby river.
What might well pass for a culture of keeping armed men could be likened to “pagali dictatorship,” according to the researchers. Besides ensuring the clan’s dominance, it accords a pagali an aura of machismo.
By their reckoning, the researchers said the higher the position of an official, the more armed men he commands, but most especially if he is the leader of the clan or occupies an important position in the pagali.
Yet for all the unwholesome duties they perform for the pagali, civilian members collect paltry pay. Their salaries vary, with some receiving P1,000 a month, and others, P3,000. On occasion, when the pagali boss is feeling generous, they get a bonus of rice and clothes.
Rudy, however, has not been as blessed with such windfall. In fact, he said that for a long time, he did not get whatever benefits he was supposed to. And months after he was interviewed by the university researchers, Rudy was killed in an encounter between soldiers and separatist rebels. He was 25.
Still and all, the “chainsaw story” he told the researchers have somehow outlived Rudy. By all indications, he had evolved into a legend of sort in Maguindanao.
When the Philippine Center of Investigative Journalism visited recently, some village folk said they know who were behind the gruesome murders and where these happened. Advisedly, they said that they are too scared to go on record on this story, or they might be the next ones to hear the buzz of a chain saw.
jon, that was unfair.
and this series of articles posted is directly relevant to kato how?
Jon, you said: “The only lesson I am learning from this conversation: Muslims cannot coexist with other people unless they are the religious majority in said specific territory, and have control of the government — otherwise they will arm themselves and wreak havoc.
I hope I’m wrong.”
answer: You are partially correct but totally wrong Jon. Even non-Muslim minorities when they feel wronged and become discontented over such wrong unjustly committed against them will rise up.
What about looking at the other side? Many places here which Muslims dominate in number co-exist with minority Christians. I dare say as an example my place Datu Piang, a place where at least 500, 000 IDPs are now settled. Within Datu Piang, there is an area called “kalubi-an” (place with plenty of coconut trees where “tuba” is made) whom the Christians folks designated to be their place. They have their own church. One for the Catholics and one for the Protestants. Unfortunately, the Protestant Church was shut up long time ago because it was not able to compete with the Catholics. And nothing wrong is done against them. They even speak our language. Their parents came from iloilo and other places outside Mindanao who were beneficiaries of Magsaysay’s EDCOR.
Now look at the other places here in Mindanao, where Christians dominate in number while Muslims are just a minority group…I do not want to speculate. Let experience be the judge.
To Jester-in-exile:
You said: “it is exactly out of respect for their sacrifice that i dare demand that — and had i had the capability to exercise it myself i certainly would.”
Answer: Not yet too late Jester, unlike AFP, CVO and CAFGU conscription is not particular of age.
danilo, answer to 3:24:
1.a. Oh yeah? When East Timor, while on the process of breaking up from Indonesia was NOT (YET) legitimate? When individual states of USSR while on the process of disintegrating themselves were NOT (YET) legitimate? When Pakistan while on its way to independence from India was NOT (YET) legitimate?
answer: let’s see, was there an armed conflict between east timorese (population: blah) and indonesia (population: blah-cubed, i would guess), where the indonesians had to let go of east timor? was the fall of the soviet union because of some one big conflict? was not pakistan the result of a partitioning from india by an external colonial power?
come now. you have to give me more relevant examples than that. these do not apply.
i’ll give you one — the war between the secessionist confederacy and the union, that of the united states civil war.
1.b.If you are, say, tired and sick of injustices and unfairness within your family, the whole family declared you “black sheep” and you’ll tell your bully “ates”and “kuyas” and parents: “Please leave me alone!, I do not want you anymore in my life!” is that NOT legitimate?
answer: who declared mindanao the black sheep? eh. victim mentality ba to.
2. You lost your rationality here.
answer: i didn’t. my point is that i don’t have the means to get the answer, so i’m waiting for yours.
3. Kato is definite that the MILF is NOT recruiting minors. He is just explaining what is a child according to Islam.
answer: yes. i know. i heard. a child is below ten. ten and up is no longer a minor. ergo, to his logic, someone thirteen is not a child soldier. according to his logic, to be a child soldier you have to be nine and below.
that’s the point i want to make clear. his definition of child soldier falls short of the the geneva convention definition.
4. He just told perhaps that the Philippine government which is manned and advised by some men who happened to be Christians, the military who marauds civilian communities (but they say they are protecting civilians, huh!) who happened to be Christians are the MILF’s enemies. Those Christians who understand the Mindanao conflict and who are not at war against them are not their enemies.
answer: “perhaps” — but as you will listen, he does not say “just happened to be christian” in any shape or form. he categorically uses the word christian in direct conflict to his use of the word muslim.
had i the time, i’d transcribe the videos into text for you.
5. Kids or adolescents? Kids? No!!! Should the military bomb and shell kids? Yesss!!! It does here!
answer: my question was “whether or not islam truly teaches that kids not even in their teens should be allowed to become cannon fodder?” (par 3) in line with “should kids from ten to seventeen be put to war?” — to clarify, to allow children to carry weapons and use them in combat.
(i knew that “put to war” might be misinterpreted. ah well. my bad.)
are you implying that adolescents should be allowed to go to war?
6. hahaha!
answer: that was an interesting reaction. rude, but interesting.
7. That’s why I am here in Mindanao.
answer: last i checked, mindanao is still part of the republic.
8. Yeah, why not? USSR had disintegrated and have individual states now. Yugoslavia too. East Timor was freed from Indonesia. India departed from Pakistan though they have the same race. Etc., etc., this tells that nation-states boundaries are just artificial. Not in the case here in the Philippines? Yeah? Gosh! What diplomatic standard is that?
answer: of course the standard is different — note that the conditions are not the same. east timor was a former colony invaded by indonesia after the portuguese left in 1975. pakistan was split from india essentially by the british (an external power). ussr disintegrated because their system of government fell.
please compare apples to apples, oranges to oranges. the MILF falls into none of these. at best, they can compare themselves to the confederacy in the us civil war.
on your 4:04:
joining the CAFGU would not give me the authority nor the capability to demand DDR from the MILF.
wait until i’m president.
(oh, but you implied in 3:24 that you don’t consider yourself part of the republic — reference your statement in par 7 — so it’s not something you can vote for or against, given that only those of the republic can and should vote, eh?)
Jester-in-Exile,
Kato is explaining what is child and the age-limit of being soin Islam, NOT CHILD SOLDIER!!!
You said, “are you implying that adolescents should be allowed to go to war?
6. hahaha!”
Answer: why not? the AFP too and the PMA, and the PNPA.
You said, “answer: let’s see, was there an armed conflict between east timorese (population: blah) and indonesia (population: blah-cubed, i would guess), where the indonesians had to let go of east timor? was the fall of the soviet union because of some one big conflict? was not pakistan the result of a partitioning from india by an external colonial power?”
Answer: You mean things got in their own way as you think of? No war in Indonesia before East Timor freedom? O c’mon. Anyway, Indonesia is the first SEA Muslim country to free a Christian state right from its turf. What about the Philippines-the ONLY CATHOLIC COUNTRY in SEA. Any other Christian countries freeing a Muslim state? Let alone mess up with the affairs of these Muslim states. huh!
You see Jester I am trying to post a parable, as the Bible always does, so you would understand what the Mindanao conflict is in my own simple way. But it seems you are very particular with my lines and not the thoughts of my lines. You are just debating, longing to beat my arguments instead of collectively seeking for nothing but the truth. This trait does not fit your supposed discreet age.
You said, “answer: last i checked, mindanao is still part of the republic.”
Answer: yeah, but not without historical irregularities. (oh, I am guilty of BJB’s historical victimology, sorry!)
You said: “wait until i’m president.”
Answer: Yeah, I would. Eddie Gil is looking for someone to anoint as his standard bearer, hahaha! joke man!
i’m an engineer. i don’t do parables, i deal with the factual statements.
give it to me straight.
as to your saying i’m debating, i’m merely repeating your words back to you and replying to them… didn’t think that was debate; i thought that was discussion.
ah, well.
but to move on — the philippines is NOT a catholic country. we are a republic, blind to race and creed, last i checked the constitution.
your statement re the armed service schools — you do support adolescents going to war? well, i do not. geneva convention, human rights, et cetera.
(apologies for this stilted reply, am eating)
On the DDR issue man, I dare repeat my argument with DJB in this respect.
Just a hypothetical question, if you are a leader of a revolutionary organization and you are dealing with your enemy state at equal bargaining table, and that an agreement is reached. Will you not make sure that your enemy state will comply religiously with its obligations it has signed in the agreement with you?
If it does not, so that you feel you are FOOLED by your enemy state, then what is your another resort? Will you rise up again? But you don’t have any weapons anymore, you surrendered them, right?
Will you then employ your WEAPON OF BEGGING at the foot of your enemy state and exhaust your tears that your enemy state will discharge its part?
What if your tears have turned into blood tears but your enemy state is still unmoved by your begging and flushed you instead into the toilet bowl, what will you be then, eh?
Oh Jester, if you are that way and you are dealing with the Philippine government, beware! Philippines is not the same as those other countries you would think of having a great record of sincerity. Philippines is second to the most corrupt countries in SEA, am I right?
“the philippines is NOT a catholic country.” But Marcos said so, that was he lobbied to the Pope John Paul II. Erap implied too. The other cabinet officials too, i don’t know with GMA. But she is doing the same.
(do note: par 6 was your laugh in reaction to my statement on being filipino, not my laugh at you.)
to continue - here’s my question with kato’s 7:01 statement: what is a child soldier? a soldier who is a child. what is a child?
see, if A implies B, and B implies C, then A implies C, yes?
the constitution says so, and that’s that.
will reply to your 5:16 and 5:19 later
Jester,
Which is why I said I hope I am wrong.
Danilo,
The only places that I do know of re: Muslim communities as minorities are the Muslim quarter in Quiapo, Maharlika Village in Taguig, and the informal settlements across the Redemptorist Church in Baclaran, Pasay City.
AFAIK, the Muslims in these area are fine and Christian Manila-dwellers are getting used to seeing more and more Muslims around them (untoward incidents aren’t at all rampant, perhaps only with the exception of the Baclaran settlement, where the settlers were threatened with demolition not because they were Muslims but because they were squatters — that issue has since been settled, pun unintended, with their once decrepit makeshift Mosque even being refurbished to a more proper permanent structure).
You could continue contesting the fair treatment of Muslims, sure, but again the burden of proof regarding your statement is yours. Besides, many times Muslims will always feel tend to feel unwelcome, no matter what their Christian neighbors are doing to them.
Sometimes I feel like Philippine Muslims are like black Americans — they will always feel, say, and claim to be discriminated upon no matter what whites do.
On strong biases against Muslims by the majority Christians, this is my answer to you:
– Filipinas Foundation study (1973)
• Muslim-Filipinos were the “least likeable” ethnic group
• 54% of respondents had unfavorable comments towards Muslims
– Philippine Human Development Report (2005)
• 33% to 39% of Filipinos are biased against Muslims
• 46% of Christian population would choose Christian male worker and 40% Christian female domestic helper. Only 4% will choose a Muslim male worker and 7% Muslim female domestic helper.
• In Metro Manila 57 percent opt for residence with higher rent but far from a Muslim community.
Jon and Jester-in-Exile, These are the other costs to the Bangsamoro of being part of the Philippines:
• Minoritization of the Bangsamoro in their own homeland
In 1918, the Muslims were dominant in Mindanao but government settlement and development programs reduced them, together with the Indigenous peoples, minority in their homeland.
• Failure of the Government
– to protect the interest of the Bangsamoro people over their lands.
– Worst still, government development programs are among the reasons why they lost their lands to migrants from the north.
Public Land Law and Resettlement
Allowed Number of Hectares
Year Homesteader Moro&WildTribe Corporation
1903 16 has. No provision 1,024 has.
1919 24 has. 10 has. 1,024 has.
1936 16 has. 4 has. 1,024 has.
• Failure of Government to deliver basic services and needed development
Muslim areas continue to suffer the highest poverty incidence.
1997 2000
Lanao Sur 55. 6 55
Maguindanao 41.6 55
Sulu 67.1 63.2
Tawi-Tawi 35 56.5
Basilan 20.9 26.2
Human Development Index, 2003
NationalRank Provinces HDI
76 Maguindanao 0.36
68 Lanao del Sur 0.48
77 Sulu 0.45
74 Basilan 0.41
75 Tawi-Tawi 0.36
• Failure of Government to protect their persons and properties
– Reported massacres of Muslims remain unsolved until now (e.g., massacres in Manili, Tacub, Malisbung, Pata island)
– Reported bombings of mosques remain unsolved.
The lesson that I learned since elementary is that most of the Non-Muslims (not all) in the Philippines or wherever they are nurture prejudices in the back of their heads when it comes to Muslims and that Muslims will never earn their approval unless they leave their rightful clamor for a just and equal treatment even right in their own homeland.
I’m still learning the same lesson here in this conversation.
Muslims in the Philippines can never be likened to the Black Americans, the Moros are not imported to Mindanao from nowhere, nor are they trampling upon others’ lands at somewhere. Since Spanish times to the present, war is just imported to Mindanao.
To be more specific, the Muslims were dominant only in the Southern and Western part of Mindanao (Cotabato-Sulu area). The Davao area was largely unoccupied forests (save for the other Indigeneous communities) which is why Americans and later the Japanese were later able to come in and establish their abaca plantations.
For much of its history, the problem of Mindanao ( and for that matter the entire Archipelago) was having too few people and the influx of people in the island was part of an effort to develop it economically. That’s the context in which the migration took place.
That is not to excuse the dismal statistics that you present above, but the problem to be solved is that of inequality which is a separate (though related) one from the issue of sovereignty. It also happens that inequality is the same issue that the Christian majority faces. Not to belabor what you and Jester have already agreed upon, but i think the real enemy is the Oligarchy and their apologists (whether Muslim or Christian) and not each other.
And by ‘enemy’, i don’t mean the people on the ground who are fighting each other (e.g. soldiers, CAFGU, Ilaga, MILF, ASG) but the ones responsible for preserving economic inequality.
If I use trade and doing business as my barometer, I don’t see any indications of the fear of having to buys stuff from the muslims.
In south harbor the muslims sell second appliances and they have many christain sukis, all over the country they sell dvds ,and christians interact with them. In some communities in Mindanao you see in the market place stalls with christians and muslims coexisting.
About that muslim population dominance at the strat of the century 76 % in 1901,then at present it may be less than 20 % may be true but did the visayans and luzonians invade Mindanao,no because all they did was migrate, it is not like the Timor Indonesia scenario where Indonesia have to invade Timor,before the Timorese got tired of Indonesian occupation and wanted to be independent.
In another part of Indonesia, the free Aceh movement problem have been resolved,everything including the reintegration issues.
If you are talking about land grabbing,the problem is countrywide. until today it is still happening,and it is not unique to Mindanao.
Just think of the failure of land reform even after 20 years, with congress clueless on what to do next, to extend for the sake of extending or , distribute the remaining beneficiaries or concentrate on those who have benefited already.Because of those questions they may not extend it.But it is obviously another issue.
But is it, they are talking about ammending land leasing and the perpetual talk of land use,zoning,etc.
“the influx of people in the island was part of an effort to develop it economically. That’s the context in which the migration took place.”-cvj
Sorry I quote your words cvj, but if i be permitted to ask, can’t economic development take place without migration? What expertise that these settlers had to develop Mindanao, especially those occupied Morolands which is never realized even to the present?
As a backdrop, during the administration of Quezon, it was reported that about 10, 000 Jews from Germany (i think) were to be resettled in Mindanao under the Presidential Advisory Committee on Political Refugees thru the Mindanao Exploration Commission. Was this known to the Moro people that time? I think not at all.
But fortunately or unfortunately, these Jews were instead resettled back to their “Promised Land” in Palestine as provided for in the Bible. (Note that the proponents of Zionism through Balfour Declaration invoked biblical passages to people who are inveterate enemies of Jesus Christ.) And so the establishment of the State of Israel and the present violence now in Palestine.
As such, it was those landless tenants from Luzon and Visayas, those dispossessed of their lands by greedy hacienderous with the backing of the government who were instead promised with lands in the south and resettled here in Mindanao. This was the very reason why Mindanao was rhetorically called “The Land of Promise.”
Promised to whom by whom?
Jester-in-exile:
You said: “to continue - here’s my question with kato’s 7:01 statement: what is a child soldier? a soldier who is a child. what is a child?”
Answer: You are concocting out of this world equation/ expression. Try to detach away each sentences and the second one will loose rationality, you’re creating your own glossary, re: “A soldier is a child.” What?
I know what you want to be of me, you just want to orchestrate your pre-conceived malice against MILF, and Islam by your “child soldier” issue.
No amount of rationality can convince inveterate prejudice.
Danilo, starting economic development requires an increase in factors of production (land, labor and capital). Sustained economic development requires continued improvement in productivity which means a continued improvement in technology. (That’s why, for example, Singapore is very aggressive in increasing its population from 4 to 6 million mainly via migration.) At that time (up to middle of 20th century), Mindanao was rich in land but poor in capital and people.
You’re right to point out that Mindanao was an outlet of the greedy landowners of Luzon and Visayas. I would have preferred genuine land reform (just like what happened in Japan, South Korea and Taiwan) which would have addressed inequality and set the foundation for industrialization. However, the reality as i mentioned above is that Mindanao was largely wilderness and the Moro occupied the South and Western portion of the island (which is not to deny that there was landgrabbing of occupied Moro lands). The settlers (mostly from Visayas btw as shown by the language they speak) have every right to Mindanao as they have been there already for more than two generations.
The different peoples (Ilonggos, Cebuanos, Maguindanaoans etc.) have to find a way to live with each other even if they don’t like each other. (Neighbors don’t usually like each other anyway.) That’s why my emphasis is on addressing economic inequality and that is largely an issue of economic class and not of ethnicity or linguistic grouping.
I got your generous points cvj, and i think every thing will be alright if everyone of us, especially the Philippine government will have that mindset of yours.
Ethnicity, religion and other social groupings is not the issue here. Human differences are natural, for us to know one another and not that we despise each other, more so exploit others. What matters as bad is that when we attach discriminatory meanings to these differences which are of our own social constructions.
What is not socially healthy is when we make proud of our culture thence impose upon the other. this is where war starts.
Since human differences is natural, then it is also natural that different neighbors can also live and co-exist with each others when they welcome knowing and respecting one another.
In Islam, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, A Muslim can never be a true Muslim when her/his neighbor (Muslim or non-Muslim) is not eating while s/he is.
If we remember, Muslims in Mindanao sectors were clamoring for “freedom to the government” i.e. equality and equity in the government in all respect like other sectors do. This is dramatized by the MNLF and signed the Final Peace Agreement with the GRP in 1996.
But even reckoning from the past, the government has been inflicting great costs to the Moro people in the course of their integration as part of the Philippine state.
Now the Moro people, after incurring such costs at the Moro people’s great lost, with the exception of some Moro politicians, shift their clamor for “freedom from the government” this time, and this is upheld then by the MILF. Had the 1996 FPA solved the Mindanao conflict, the MILF is willing to disappear from the scene, the late Amir Hashim Salamat said that.
Jetster,I have to apologize to go beyond the scope of the topic at hand.
Chuck,
Economic inequality: How do you define that?
I don’t want to repeat debate, that lead me to mention the word communism.I don’t even want to think socialism ,capitalism or any chism.
To be safe,I would want to ask for your definition.
Danilo, no doubt that the Philippine government has inflicted a lot of suffering to the Muslim people, that’s why i believe the focus of all Filipinos should be to eliminate Gloria Arroyo in particular and the Oligarchs in general from running our government.
Karl, inequality is measured via the proportion of wealth the richest Filipinos have as compared to the amount of wealth of the poorest. Wealth can be in terms of income or land. (From the point of view of economic development, land inequality is more relevant hence my emphasis on land reform.) Both can be measured using the Gini coefficient. Another way to measure inequality is the disparity in Human Development Index across regions that Danilo has indicated above (at 9:06 am). As i commented previously, at an HDI index 0.36, if Maguindanao were a country on its own, it would rank alongside Zimbabwe. By contrast, Metro Manila, if it were a country on its own, would rank alongside Mauritius, about 50 countries above.
Thank You Chuck,
I will research on the gini coefficient later, maybe I won’t look far I will just go to placeholder.
Since we mentioned land reform:
Since I would like to disclose that I am a consultant for The agricultural/fisheries oversight committee, I would like to say to you I attended an en banc session yesterday,and they mentioned that the land reform law will not be extended.
Not withstanding that,they still continued with the meeting.
They all admitted that land reform was a failure.
They have been discusing for ten years the land use law and it’s urgent approval, My God are they that slow.they have discussed that very way to circumvent the law was done like by buying cattle and livestock and spreading it. I also learned that the owners have not yet been payed by voluntary land offer,because Angara stepped up the plate by saying that until now he is not yet paid.
Access to credit is a problem,there is none.One suggested to do away with collective land titles and it would be countered that it won’t make any difference.
The resource speaker suggested the involvement of LGUs ,i was surprised by Cong Escudero saying Kaawaan tayo ng diyos kung iasa mo sa politician yan.di ba politician din naman congressmen at senators? But he has a point, escudero is a land owner,but he is brave enough to say that most of the lands are owned by politicians.
Ganyan tayo kagulo, if benign0 reads this matutuwa na naman yun because it will prove his point about his claim that pinoys lack resolve.
land reform 20 years with disapointing results would be a field day for him.
About agriculture,
secretary yap said wala ng gusto magbenta ng bigas dahil sa nFA,he is asking for increase in prices,because not only the poor are getting the rice.
Tapos nagulat ako me congressmen na nagsabi me pautang racket daw yun NFA, and sec Yap says that is the first time he heard of it.
And rememeber the so called rice shortage , di nakaligtas si SEc Yap his statistics made it appear na parang walang naging shortage,natameme sya dun.
madami pang disappointing stories,but we have heard a lot already.
I would like to discuss about the miltary,because I also work for the defense committee,pero hands off ako dyan.
funny you accuse me of “inveterate prejudice”, when all i want is an answer to whether or not the geneva convention is something that kato respects. (the milf recognize the geneva convention, apparently, so i don’t include them in the question.) the logic is clear, and has nothing to do with the way i feel.
had you known that i was almost a “balik-islam”, you might have said things differently. nonetheless, as the hadith as narrated by abu hurayrah is translated, “all of you are children of adam, and adam is from dust” — this is a view i have taken to heart, and that making distinctions between christian and muslim — as kato had been doing in his words above — smack rather strongly of jaahiliyyah, of which i was taught to be bad.
but here essentially is what i want to point out why i put up this discussion on kato: his actions in north cotabato. the families who fled after he went in and torched the place included muslims and christians. (i have family there, i know.)
what i wanted to learn are these:
1. were kato’s actions in north cotabato sanctioned by the MILF command? if not, why is he still free? if so, is not the MILF guilty of violating the ceasefire?
2. why does kato claim his aggressive and not defensive actions in north cotabato to be jihad, a war in defense of the faithful, when even the faithful are those who are driven out of the area? (do note that he also torched farms — and isn’t that supposed to be haram in war?)
3. how can kato claim that it was the GRP who escalated the conflict, when it was he who attacked north cotabato?
on the MILF, lest we forget, there already was a chance for peace after the MNLF and the GRP did agree on a DDR policy. the ARMM and the SPCPD were the primary means at that time, and what happened? the MILF split and started yet another conflict — i have long thought that the MILF did not want to make peace because of this.
as to the idea of “land-grabbing”, i have not denied that there was (it’s happened to family here north as well), but as cvj points out, mindanao was essentially unoccupied then, which then led to settlers from luzon and the visayas to establish themselves in mindanao. was that migration landgrabbing, when there was nobody who was displaced when they settled in uninhabited territory?
like is said earlier, danilo, this conflict is between the republic and secessionists. please do not attribute to me a prejudice you cannot prove.
everyone else, i’d like to jump off from cvj’s 10:09 with a question: with the current development activities going on in mindanao to address economic inequality, should we not take the MILF to task because of the fact that they get in the way of these programs?
Karl, thanks. Your view from the inside is valuable.
folks, i’d like to share this very interesting article: